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Descendants of William and George Phelps
[Testimony of] William Francis
Sworn and examined.
By Commissioner Ferriss
Q Where do you reside?
A I reside near New Baltimore in Fauquier County Va.
Q How far from Mrs Claggett?
A About two miles I reckon.
Q How long have you known her?
A I have known her for 30 or 35 years at least.
Q Did you live in the same place during the war that you now live?
A I didn't live in the same house: I lived about a quarter of a mile from there, and have never changed since.
Q Are you in any way related to her?
A She is my mother in law.
Q Was she loyal?
A Yes sir, I considered her so. I never knew her to be anything else.
Q What reason have you for thinking she 24 was.
A Because I never knew her to be guilty of any thing else and from what I heard there during the war I considered her as such.
Q What did she say?
A I could not tell you now positively what she did say but she seemed to be opposed to the war you know and thought it was unnecessary and should not and ought not to have been.
Q Did you see her frequently?
A Yes sir.
Q You were at her house?
A Yes sir, sometimes during the war I wouldn't see her probably for a fortnight when the armies were about there. I generally kept pretty close.
Q Did they get you into the army?
A No sir, I was over conscript age at that time.
Q Did Mrs Claggett ever say anything to you about the union army coming into Virginia?
A Well sir I don't know that she ever did: I have no recollection of anything in particular that she did say: I couldn't repeat anything particularly that she said concerning it.
Q Did you ever hear her speak in harsh terms of the Yankees invading the soil of Virginia?
A No sir I have heard her grumble at it right smart when they would tear up things?
Q She was a woman pretty high strung wasn't she and when she would get her back up she would talk?
A Yes sir she was pretty much that kind of a woman: she was old and afflicted and could not go out of her house: she was paralysed.
Q She was a native born Virginian?
A Yes sir.
Q You have an idea of what is meant by states-rights?
A Yes sir.
Q Well how was it with you: weren't you a states-rights man?
A No sir, I believed that the state had rights but that they were bound to the general government first: and that they had a right to control their internal affairs.
Q Didn't you think when Virginia seceded that it was the duty of all good citizens to follow the state after she seceded from the general government?
A No sir I did not consider they were in 26 duty bound to do so.
Q Do you know how Mrs Claggett thought on that subject?
A I think Mrs Claggett was considered union -- I know she was I don't think anything about it. I considered her such.
Q You say you heard her speak in harsh terms when the yankees took her property?
A Yes sir, I have heard her quarrel over it I have heard her say you know what everybody nearly, would. they were right on the turnpike road leading from Alexandria to Warrenton.
Q Were you ever with her soon after any important battle had taken place?
A I do not know.
Q You were every week or two hearing of battles?
A Yes sir.
Q And you would talk those matters over with her?
A No sir, I don't know that I ever sat down and taled this matter over with her, because she was old and afflicted and you could hardly understand anything she would say.
Q Do you know anything about her wood-land A Yes sir.
Q How many acres had she?
A She had one very heavy piece of timber.
Q It was the best in the county?
A No sir it was not the best in the county: there were about 20 acres in that piece -- that is my judgment and there was another small piece adjoining, probably four or five acres -- somewhere about that.
By Counsel.
Q Making 24 or 25 in all?
A Yes sir.
Q How many cords would it turn out to the acre in cord-wood.
A I could not say, but it would turn out a great many -- this 20 acre piece would.
Q Do you know anything about cord wood?
A No sir I never cut any or had any cut, but it would turn off a good many hundred cords of wood -- the whole of it.
Q Were these 20 acres and these 4 acres second growth or original growths?
A They were original growth.
By Comm. Ferriss.
Q All of it?
A All of it.
By Counsel
Q Oak and pine?
A Oak and chestnut: there was no pine it it: it was a piece of wood that had always been saved and favored by the owners of the land.
Q How many cords of wood do you think the whole of it would make? (no answer).
By Commissioner Aldis
Q Are you willing to swear that it would cut 10 cords to the acre.
A Yes sir, a portion of it would cut nearly 100 cords to the acre.
By Comm. Ferriss
Q You are not accustomed to cutting or measuring wood?
A No sir but I have seen cord wood cut and piled: I have never done anything that way myself, or had anything done but I know these 20 acres of wood was a very heavily timbered piece.
By Commissioner Aldis
Q I think you said about 25 acres altogether?
A yes sir there were about 4 or 5 acres in one piece and 20 in another: The wood was all cut off this 20 acre piece: there was some left .
Q What proportion?
A There was not more than 1/5 of it left and on the small piece there was not none than 5 or 6 trees left.
By Counsel.
Q That was wood with a cord there before the war, in 1860 standing?
A I am not able to tell you.
Q Was the timber land, worth more or less of that cleared land - did the timber on it make it more or less valuable?
A More valuable.
By Comm. Ferriss
Q What relative difference is there between timber and cleared land - do you think timber land was worth in that uncultivated state covered with timber more than cultivated land was by the acre?
A Yes sir I considered the timber on that land north to the barn (just the timber on one acre) worth more than three acres of the open land. I considered it so because to take that off would leave the farm entirely destitute of timber for fencing splitting or anything else.
By Counsel.
Q Was timber abundant there or otherwise?
A It was tolerably abundant.
by Comm. Ferriss.
Q You can consider the timber on one acre with more than three acres of the open land?
A I am speaking particularly in regard to that farm and I say in regard to that farm that one acre of timber land, was worth more than three acres of open land, because if you took that off you left it entirely destitute: That was all there was on it except a little corner of pine that was on it fit for building fences or anything else.
By Counsel.
Q Who got this timber?
A I think Gen Franklin's division was camped on in that by the large body of woods.
Q What did they do with the timber?
A It was used as fuel - a great portion of the small piece: They were camped all through there. Gen Bartlett staid there for several weeks: I don't know what division he was attached to.
Q What about the barn?
A She had a good large barn that was destroyed.
Q What was the size of the barn?
A I suppose it was about 30 or 40 feet square - it was one of those shed barns.
Q Was it one of those barns with the main part upright, and a shed adjoining it?
A Yes sir.
Q How high was the main part?
A I suppose not more than 12 or 14 feet.
Q Were sheds built up against it - how high were they?
A I suppose the cover of the sheds were some 7 or 8 feet
from the ground and it were not ran up
inclined?
Q Were there sheds on four sides?
A No sir there was a shed only on one side.
Q What did they do with the barn?
A They took it away.
Q Did they take it all down or did they strip the boards off?
A they took it pretty much all down.
Q They took all the plank away?
A Yes sir.
Q Was there a plank floor?
A Yes sir.
Q And a stable floor.
A No sir, the stable had no floor.
Q When was this done - what season of the year?
A It was done in the winter I think.
Q By the same parties who took this wood?
A Yes sir.
Q Do you know what they did with this timber?
A I do not.
Q It was in the winter season.
A Yes sir.
Q Did you see any of this timber lumber there in use?
A No sir, I could not have pointed that out. I saw a great many shanties put up built with plank.
Q Did you see them take this down?
A No sir I did not.
Q How long were those troops there?
A There was a large force came there twice and they staid 12 days one time and near about that the next time I think until they got supplies from the railroad - from here up as far as Gainesville Station and then wagoned it from there.
Q Do you know anything about the wheat she had in that barn and what became of it?
A No sir I do not know what became of it.
Q Do you know anything about how much she had there?
A I do not.
Q Do you know whether she had any?
A Yes sir she had wheat in her bar: I know the crop of wheat
was there all but a small quantity she had made into wheat flour was in the barn.
Q How large a crop was there - how many loads or acres?
A I could not tell: it was full - I suppose about 18 or 20 acres; and she had harvested it all.
Q It was threshed was it?
A Yes sir threshed and cleared.
Q You were there every week or two and know it was in the barn?
A Yes sir I saw it in the barn.
Q How long before these troops came there: did you see it in the barn?
A Well probably a week or a fortnight. I knew that she hadn't hauled it off.
Q Could she have hauled it off without you knowing it?
A I reckon she had no way of disjoining of it if she had a the means mind to haul it off.
By Commissioner Ferriss.
Q Did it disappear while the army was there?
A Yes sir I understood so.
Q You do know that yourself?
A No sir.
By Counsel
Q Do you know anything about the hay?
A I know she had a great deal of it.
Q Where was it?
A Some was in the barn and some in the stacks.
By Commissioner Aldis.
Q Go on and tell all you know about that hay?
A I know the loft of the barn was full of hay and she had several stacks of hay but I never charged my mind particularly about the quantities.
Q Can you tell the number of stacks?
A Some four or five stacks I suppose? She had a large meadow
I know, that she had a meadow mowed.
Q Do you recollect seeing four or five stacks.
A yes sir.
Q What became of it - do you know?
A No sir I didn't see any person take it: it disappeared when the army was there.
Q Was it there when they came there?
A Yes sir, and it had disappeared when they had gone, and I learned from her that they had used it.
Q How much do you think there was of the hay that she had there?
A I suppose each of the stacks contained from 3,500 to 4,000 pounds and there was probably a couple of thousand in the barn besides.
Q Do you know how many harnesses she had?
A She had a set of harnesses for the carriage a set of harnesses for the wagon and then plough gearing such as they generally have on a [begin lined through] plough [end lined through] farm.
Q What do you mean by a "set"?
A I mean harness for a pair of horses.
Q One for a carriage, and one for a team and one for plowing - three sets?
A Yes sir.
Q Tell what you know about them: They were there when the army came?
A I suppose they were there.
By Commissioner Aldis.
Q Now you perseive how worthless your testimoney is if you testify in that way. You say "I suppose": we want to know what you know.
A I know she had them there and I know that when the army left they disappeared. I wasn't there to see them to take these things because I was two miles off at home watching what little I had of my own, but I learned from them after the army left that they got them.
Q You say that they disappeared and all you know about their disappearance is what they told you.
A I never saw them afterwards: Of course I did not go around to look if they were there.
By Counsel.
Q She is your mother in law?
A Yes sir.
Q Did you ever go around and see about these things?
A I never went around the barn to look particularly.
Q Did you ever see them after the army went away?
A No sir.
Q Did you see them before?
A yes sir.
Q How frequently?
A Every time I was there about the stable and barn.
Q And you never saw them afterwards?
A No sir.
Q Did you go to the stable and barn occasionally?
A Very often.
Q And when the army was gone the barn was gone was it?
A Yes sir I know that: Her son bought a set of wagon gearing very soon afterwards to use.
Q For her?
A Yes sir, for her.
Q What was this harness worth in Virginia in 1860.
A The carriage harnesses were worth very nice I cannot tell you what they were worth.
Q What kind of a set was the wagon gearing?
A That was just common.
Q And the plow gearing?
A That was common plow gearing.
Q Cant you tell these commissioners something about their value?
A I suppose each set of plow gearing the collars and bridles were worth five dollars a piece.
Q Two of these made a set?
A Yes sir.
Q That would be 10 dollars: What was the wagon gearing worth?
A I suppose that would be worth 20 dollars a set.
Q What was the other gearing worth?
A I dont suppose the carriage harness could have been less than 50 dollars - the carriage with the gearing cost about 500 dollars.
Q What about the oats?
A I can not tell you anything positively about those.
Q Now the next item here is in regard to two horses taken by the army - tell the commissioners what you know about them.
A Well sir I cannot tell them positively about the horses.
Q Can't you tell whether she had horses?
A She had horses.
Q Go on and tell all you do know then.
A She had that I recollect of now some - I could not tell you now positively about the horses.
Q How many horses do you think she had?
A 4, 5, or 6.
Q What kind of horses were they?
A They were tolerably good horses - one I bought for her myself: she sent me out to buy it and I gave 125 dollars and for one I gave 70 dollars for, and the others - they would about average the balance of them.
Q Do you know anything about whether those horses, were they were there when the army came through or not?
A I don't know whether they were all there: there were some of them there.
Q How many of them?
A I could not tell you that.
Q Do you know there were two there?
A Yes sir.
Q How many do you know there were?
A I know there were two: I cannot say though for a certainty.
Q Is there all you can say for a certainty?
A I cannot say anything positively beyond that.
Q I don't want you to: You know there were two there.
A I know of another one that she lost: It was a very fine one: it was taken 40 I think by some of Gen Bartletts officers.
Q How old was it?
A Four years old.
Q Was that at this time?
A No sir, it was after this it was taken by some of the cavalry - a raiding party.
Q What kind of a horse was it?
A It was a black stallion.
Q Did you see him taken?
A No sir.
By Comm. Aldis.
Q All you know is from hear-say.
A Yes sir.
By Comm Ferriss.
Q What do you know about her hogs?
A I do not know anything positively about them. I know she had hogs but I dont know how many:
By Counsel.
Q Well come to some item that you do know about: Do you know how many there were?
A I have no idea of the number.
Q Well can you tell whether there were two or six?
A Yes sir.
Q Well how many?
A I can not tell you how many and I don't know that the soldiers took them because I was not there to see.
Q Do you know whether she had any hogs when the army came there?
A Yes sir she had some when the army came there.
Q How many do you think she had?
A Well there was a good many big and little - and a fine stock of hogs.
Q Why don't you estimate what you think there were in number -- I don't expect you counted them.
A Well sir, I dont know that I could make a right estimate, and I could not say what became of these hogs.
Q Do you know anything about the fat cattle?
A Well sir, I know she had them there: I know I bought in the fall of 1859 I think it was 9 head for myself, and her son bought about the same number.
Q When was this?
A In the fall of 1860.
Q Did she have them at this time?
A Yes sir.
Q Well what else?
A Then she had a parcel of milch cows and a yoke of oxen.
Q Do you say she had those when this army came there?
A Yes sir.
Q And you know they were not there when the army went away?
A No sir there were only a few of them left when the army went away.
Q How many of them?
A I think about 4 milk cows.
Q Do you know what became of them?
A I do not know. I didn't see them taken only what I heard her son tell me that they were driven to Warrenton and he followed them and got them back.
Q Driven off by whom?
A I can not say who carried them off: I will tell you when it was: it was the army passed through that section of Virginia on their way from Gettysburg to Richmond after the fight at Gettsburgh.
By Comm Ferriss.
Q There were two armies passed along, which was it, the first or the second one - one wore gray and the other blue.
A It was the blue=coats: the grays didn't come that way; they went behind the mountain.
By Counsel.
Q Here is another item of hay besides what we have been speaking of: do you know anything about that?
A Yes sir, there was hay taken at another time.
Q Another year do you mean to say?
A Before this time I presume. They were taken two different years, in 1862 the army camped there until they got their supplies from Gainesville depot and then in the fall of 1863 they came there again.
Q do you know of any hay being taken the first time they were there?
A No I cannot be positive about that hay.
Q do you know anything about the quantity of bacon taken?
A No more than I was told by them.
Q Do you know anything about the corn?
A No more than I was told by them.
Q Do you know whether she had corn at this time - at any time the army was there?
A Yes sir I know she made a fine crop of corn that year and had it housed.
Q How many acres of corn did she have that year?
A I suppose she had some 30 acres.
Q Had she housed it all?
A Yes sir.
Q Do you know whether she had it all at the time this army came around?
A I have no recollection of her selling any.
Q Do you know whether any of it was there when the army went away or not?
A I don't think there was: if there was, there was a very small opportunity.
Q Where was the corn housed?
A It was housed in the corn house about a hundred yards from the house.
Q Did you take any notise whether the corn was gone or not?
A Yes sir, it was gone: there were 5 or 10 barrels probably left.
Q How many barrels do you think there were in the corn house before the army came, from what you noticed of it?
A I suppose they made about 100 barrels of corn.
Q Now in regard to the fences on the farm can you tell us the quantity of fences on it, pretty high?
A There were several thousand panels I presume.
Q Can you tell the length?
A There were 272 acres of land all fenced in and it was divided into six or seven fields.
Q Do you say there was a fence all around the outside.
A Yes sir.
Q Do you know whether that fence was all here or a part here?
A On one side for a long stretch it was on two public roads -- on two sides you may say and that was all hers on the turnpike road, and then on the road leading northward.
Q What about the other two sides.
A The other two sides was a partnership fence between here and her neighbors.
Q She owned half of it and each on the other two sides?
A Yes sir.
Q What shape was the farm, long or square -- do you know the length of the longest line?
A This line that I spoke of on these two roads was a full mile or over.
Q A mile each?
A No sir, not a mile each.
Q I don't understand you exactly?
A You see the turnpike came down this way (illustrating) and it was about a mile and a quarter to here (illustrating).
Q You think it was a quarter of a mile on this side (illustrating).
A no sir.
By Comm. Ferriss.
Q How much length of fence do you think she had altogether there?
A Seven or eight miles of fence like it altogether.
Q They took it all?
A Yes sir I believe every rail was taken except the garden fence, and her son refenced a field that was burned again. I saw them tearing the rails off that myself.
Q How many fields was the farm fenced off into?
A There were 7 fields, I will be positive about the fence, but these other small matters I never charged my mind with and it has been some time since it happened.
Q What became of the fence: what do you know about that?
A I know this about it: I saw the soldiers using it for fuel at different points. I didn't stay there to see it all burned.
Q How many soldiers were there?
A They is a said
some 40,000. There were probably two divisions.
By Comm. Ferriss.
Q Were there two army corps there.
A I think there was. Gen Franklin was one and I forget the other commanders name.
by Comm. Aldis.
Q At what time did you say they burned the rails.
A I think it was in the winter of 1862 or 1863. Gen Bartlett was camped there some six weeks on the farm with a brigade.
Q After the army left, what proportion of the rails were gone?
A I don't think there was a rail on the farm except it was around the garden: it was not only the case on that farm but on every adjoining farm.
Q Do you know that the rebels didn't burn any of the rails?
A No the rebels never camped on there: if they burned it any, it was just simply when their wagoners stopped over night on the road.
Q Were her wood lands fenced?
A Yes sir, the whole premises were fenced in: the fences
went clear around the whole line and then it was cut into seven different
fields. This outside fence was what we call post and rail, the fence I think was not and the other was common crooked
worm fence.